There are enough reasons to hate them (missionaries): Dara

Bhubaneswar, May 10: At first, he was on the run and elusive. Now that he is firmly tucked away in Orissa's Baripada jail, speaking to him hasn't become any easier either. The Orissa government wouldn't let journalists speak to Rabindra Kumar Pal, better known to the outside world as Dara Singh, for a variety of reasons, including a proposition that Dara might flee if scribes were allowed inside the jail.

It finally took a writ petition by the India Today Special Correspondent in Bhubaneswar, Ruben Banerjee, filed before the Orissa High Court, and a court decree to prise open the high security jail gates for a rare interview with the dreaded Dara, accused among all things of burning alive Australian born Christian missionary Graham Stuart Staines and his two young sons in Manoharpur last year.

Once face-to-face inside the jailor's office of Baripada jail, Dara betrayed little of the fear or the terror that he routinely invoked, clad in a freshly-ironed kurta pyjama, his hair neatly combed and his beard trimmed. Though forceful while making his points, he rarely raised his voice. Credited with the most heinous murders, he glibly waved them away.

Kept in segregation, though not in solitary confinement, jail staff says Dara is well behaved. He wakes early, reads from the Ramayan Chalisa. In the evening, its again time to read the Gita. Rest of the day is spent in banter with the staff.

Dara's seeming good behaviour certainly does not match the notoriety that surrounds him. So the court allowed INDIA TODAY one-hour to fathom the man and his mind. There was lot to be asked, ranging from his life, upbringing, his political leanings and last but not the least, his undiluted fanaticism. This is Dara Singh's first authenticated, exclusive interview:

Q: How is life in jail?
A: Life is good. Ramayan keeps me company. There are newspapers to read. And there is of course Bhagwad Gita to read over and over again. There is nothing to complain about.

Q: Do you know that you are internationally famous-or notorious?
A: I know. Circumstances made me famous.

Q: So did you kill Australian born Christian missionary Graham Stuart Staines and his two young children?
A: No. I did not kill them. But it is true that I spearheaded the movement against missionaries. I was actively involved too in the movement against illegal trade in cows and cow slaughter. Since I was possibly the most famous name in the region, the police implicated me in the killings.

The day the Staines were killed at Manoharpur, I was at least 12-13 kms away from the place. But yes, I did not like Graham Staines. For that matter, I never liked any missionaries.

Q: Why didn't you like them?
A: There are enough reasons to hate them. Missionaries have been targeting our religion. They have been converting Hindus by deceit and inducements.

Our religion is under siege. So to oppose them was my responsibility as a true Hindu. Therefore I worked in the region, organising people against conversions and cow slaughter. We also worked for protecting forests. I was only doing my duty.

Q: So at least you are admitting that you were involved in the incidents of hijacking trucks transporting cows and forcibly setting them free? In some cases, the drivers were also beaten up and there are over 10 such police cases pending against you.
A: I did not do them personally, but my supporters might have done them. The situation was such that such things had to be done. The local police did not do their duty. The police took bribes from the cow traders openly and in some cases, actually escorted the trucks themselves. When the police did not do their duty, our supporters had to step in. Illegal cow slaughter had to be stopped at any cost.

Q: So you are saying you did not kill Staines. But what about the two other subsequent murders: of Sheikh Rehman in Padiabeda and of Father Arul Doss in Jamboni? You are a suspect in both the cases.
A: I was not involved. But then my supporters could have done them. For besides opposing the missionaries, there has been a movement even against the Muslims in the locality. And possibly, both Rehman and Doss had personal enmities.

Q: Why were you opposed to both the communities?
A: We never liked their activities. The Muslims targeted cows and our religion. The missionaries were into conversions. And the neo-converts were being unleashed on the local Hindus. How can any religion sleep over such constant attacks?

Q: So you were not involved, but your supporters could have been behind the killings?
A: Maybe yes. Maybe no. Hindus are opposed to both Muslims and Christians and the fight is still on here. It's a fact of life and when there is a fight, some people do die.

Q: But what about the two young children of Staines, Philip and Timothy? Why did they have to die?
A: I don't know. I have nothing to say.

Q: You must surely be regretting the deaths of the two children.
A: No. I have no regrets. And I will never regret. I have other important things to regret, like the loss of lives in the Orissa cyclone. I also regret the regular deaths of Indian jawans being killed by missionary-backed insurgents in the North East. When Hindus die, others don't cry. So why should we weep when others die? Whatever has happened is right. Whatever that will happen will also be right.

Q: What all is going to happen?
A: What will happen is not in my hands. But I am certain that cow slaughter and conversions will stop once for ever. And till the time it happens, the fight would be on. It's the responsibility of every Hindu to fight such evils.

Q: So you consider yourself as a footsoldier of Hindu Dharma?
A: Why not? I have always been a proud Hindu. And some years ago, after I had come down to live in Orissa, there was an incident between us and the Muslims here that forced me come out into the open. I started opposing the missionaries as well as the Muslims. Not every Muslim but only those who were into the illegal trade in cows.

Q: What you say makes you sound more and more like a RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) man.
A: No. Never. I have never been in the RSS. Yes, they talk like me. But they don't do what I do. I have seen cows being taken to be slaughtered before the eyes of RSS men. And they did nothing.

Q: If not RSS, you must have been with VHP (Vishwa Hindu Parishad).
A: No. never.

Q: What about Bajrang Dal?
A: No. Never.

Q: You had no relations with the BJP or its allies?
A: What is the meaning of your relations? For that matter, as a resident of the locality, I had social relations with politicians of every political party-Congress and the BJP. But I have never been a member of any political party. I know the local Biju Janata Dal leaders. I also know the Congressmen. And by virtue of being almost neighbours, I knew the former BJP MP from Keonjhar. But I have never been any party for I never wanted to contest elections.

Q: But in your struggle against cow slaughter and conversions, wasn't it expected that you would take support from BJP?
A: We did not. For we realised that if we take a particular party's support, there would be others to oppose us. Our movement was mass-based, cutting across party lines. We wanted every Hindu to be on our side. Not just Hindus who support the BJP. As a result, we had everyone supporting us, be it Congressmen, Jharkhandis and others.

Q: Who do you consider your leader?
A: I am self-taught and self inspired. I do my own bidding. But yes, if I like anyone speaking, it is Bal Thackeray. He calls spade a spade and I like the way he talks. Thackerayji first talked about stopping cricket matches between India and Pakistan and at that time everyone laughed. But after Kargil, the others too wanted such a ban. Shiv Sena appears more sincere and committed to the cause. I would want to meet Bal Thackeray today or tomorrow. I am his fan.

Q: Now that you are in jail, organisations like Dharmarakshak Dara Singh Sahayata Samiti have come up and some BJP MPs like Dilip Singh Judeo are openly involved with them. They want you to be free at the earliest and carry on with your fight against conversions.
A: I have heard about them. True, the work for Hindu dharma must go on. But I don't think the MPs would stand by us in the long run. Since they are in parties, they wont go the entire length. I am not counting on them.

Q: So you are disillusioned with the BJP, RSS and the others?
A: I am neither in awe nor disillusioned with them. But the fact is they don't practice what they preach. So why preach at all?

Q: Tell us why Graham Staines had to die?
A: He must have got killed because he was into conversions. This is certain.

Q: But then what was his children's fault? They were not into converting people.
A: This I cant answer.

Q: What if you ever meet Mrs Graham Staines? Will you have anything to tell her?
A: No, I never want to meet her. But if I meet her accidentally, I would respect her since she is a lady. That's courtesy. But let me be very clear. If she is also into conversions, I will oppose her.

Q: But why oppose voluntary conversions?
A: That we are not opposing. But we are opposed to conversions by inducements, which are more the rule. That's been the rule here. People are being even been bribed with paddy to convert. No one converts on his own here. That is why the administration has no records of conversions. No one notifies. But law should be equal for all.

Q: What led to your arrest? It is said that you wanted to acquire a gun and the police had you trapped.
A: Its totally wrong. I was never arrested. I surrendered. I walked into Karanjia police station on my own since for the past few days, the police were torturing innocent villagers and I could not digest it any longer.

Given my support, no police can arrest me. I tell you, set me free again and the police will never be able to catch me again. I will be in this region only and they cant get me. And I never wanted a gun. I never needed even a lathi.

Q: And how did the police treat you after that?
A: They beat me up, first in Kuliana police station and then when I was in state crime branch custody. They forced me to say what I did not say. They made me admit what I haven't done.

Q: What do you think will happen now?
A: What can happen when I have not killed? I will be acquitted. The cases against me have no merit. I will be a free man.

Q: But what if you are convicted?
A: It can never be. In any case, I am prepared to be a martyr for the cause of Hindus.

Q: Once you are free, if ever, what will you do?
A: I will go back to do what I have been doing-against cow slaughter and conversions. Once they stop, I will do personal work. But till that time, our struggle would continue. The government must stop conversions and cow slaughter. For if they are not stopped, more might get killed. Anything can happen. Our supporters would be provoked to do drastic things. Its better both conversions and cow slaughter is therefore stopped at the earliest.

Q: Do you have any plans to be in politics?
A: I have not given it a thought as yet. But if the need arises, maybe one day I will be in politics. But as of now, never given it a thought. As of now, I don't want to be in politics.
 

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