Author:
Publication: Middle East Forum
Date: December 1998
URL: http://www.meforum.org/meq/dec98/usa.shtml
In perhaps his most explicit and
detailed statement about the United States, Usama bin Ladin spoke on May
28, 1998, in Arabic, to John Miller of ABC News in his hideaway deep in
the mountains of southern Afghanistan.1 A Saudi who became active against
the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, bin Ladin uses his great wealth to advance
Islamist causes, primarily through his organization Al-Qa'ida. Although
his expressions are stilted and the references sometimes obscure, bin Ladin
makes many candid and startling observations in the following interview
about the United States that go far to explain his many terrorist assaults
on Americans. The interview is reprinted (with minor stylistic alterations)
by permission of ABC News.
PERSONAL
John Miller: Mr. bin Ladin, to Americans
you are an interesting figure: A man who comes from a background of wealth
and comforts who ended up fighting on the front lines. Many Americans would
think that's unusual.
Usama bin Ladin: Thanks be to God.
It is hard for one to understand if a person does not understand Islam.
In our religion we believe that God created us to worship him. God created
us and blessed us with this religion. He orders us to carry out the holy
struggle, jihad, to raise His word above the words of the unbelievers.
We believe this is a form of worship
we must follow without regard to our financial ability. It is untrue, as
Westerners and secularists in the Arab world claim, that the reason for
the awakening and the return to Islam is financial difficulties. In fact,
the return of the people to Islam is a blessing from God, and they return
out of a need for God.
This is not strange. During the
days of jihad [against the Soviets in Afghanistan], thousands of young
men who were well-off financially left the Arabian Peninsula and other
areas to join the fighting. Hundreds of them were killed in Afghanistan,
Bosnia and Chechnya. We pray God grants them martyr status.
Miller: I was wondering if you could
tell me the story of the gun behind you and how you got it? It is kind
of a legend that during the Afghan war you got it in hand-to-hand combat
with Russians who were on a three-day assault on the camp.
Bin Ladin: We went through vicious
battles with the Russians. It is enough to say that the Russians are known
in the West for their brutality and viciousness. They used poisonous gas
against us, which I personally experienced. They sent airplanes against
our position, and we lost many fighters; but we were able to deter many
commando attacks. We are worshipers of God, and we carry out our duties.
Our duty is to call on all nations to join the light. Our first duty is
as people of this religion and to fight for this religion.
The Westerners have been under the
impression that we are butchers. They just need to look only at their [Western]
brethren in east Europe, Turkey, and Albania to see how they embraced Islam
and have for centuries lived happily with it. The Western masses have fallen
under the influence of the Jewish media who do not broadcast information
on Muslims except to report that we butcher-without showing that the number
of us butchered is much bigger. It is our duty to lead people to light.
VIEWS OF AMERICA
Miller: You have been described
as the "World's Most Wanted Man." There is word that the American government
intends to put a price on your head in the millions [of dollars] for your
capture. Do you think about that? Does it worry you?
Bin Ladin: Praise be to God. It
does not worry us what the Americans think. What worries us is pleasing
God.
The Americans impose themselves
on everyone who believes in his own religion and rights. They accuse our
children in Palestine of being terrorists, children who have no weapons
and have not even reached maturity. At the same time the Americans defend
with their airplanes and tanks a country-the state of the Jews-that has
a policy of destroying the future of these children. Clinton stands after
Qana [a town in Lebanon shelled by the Israelis] and defends the horrible
massacre that severed the heads of children and killed about one hundred
persons. Clinton claims Israel has the right to defend itself.
We do not worry about Americans'
opinion, or the fact they place a price on our heads. As Muslims, we believe
our fate is set. Even if the whole world decides to get together and kill
us before our time has come, we will not die.
Miller: You have said, "If the Americans
are so brave they will come and arrest me." Do you think that is something
my country will try?
Bin Ladin: We have seen in the last
decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American
soldier. He is ready to wage cold wars but unprepared to fight hot wars.
This was proven in Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions, showing
they can run in less than twenty-four hours. This was then repeated in
Somalia. We are ready for all occasions, we rely on God.
Miller: Mr. bin Ladin, you have
issued a fatwa [Islamic edict] calling on all Muslims to kill Americans
where they can, when they can. Is that directed at all Americans, just
American military, just Americans in Saudi Arabia?
Bin Ladin: As we mentioned before,
God ordered us in this religion to purify Muslim land of all non-believers,
and especially the Arabian Peninsula where the Ka'ba [in Mecca] is. After
World War II, the Americans became more aggressive and oppressive, especially
in the Muslim world.
We are surprised this question is
coming from Americans. Each action will solicit a similar reaction. We
must use such punishment to keep your evil away from Muslims, Muslim children
and women. American history does not distinguish between civilians and
military, and not even women and children. Americans are the ones who used
the bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants
and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from
destroying all people.
Your situation with Muslims in Palestine
is shameful, if there is any shame left in America. In the Sabra and Shatilla
massacre [of 1982], a cooperative effort between Zionist and Christian
forces, houses were demolished over the heads of children. Also, according
to testimony of relief workers in Iraq, the American-led sanctions resulted
in the death of over one million Iraqi children.
All of this was done in the name
of American interests. We believe the Americans are the biggest thieves
and terrorists in the world.
We do not differentiate between
those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets
in this fatwa. The fatwa includes all that share or take part in killing
of Muslims, assaulting holy places, or those who help the Jews occupy Muslim
land.
Miller: Ramzi Yusuf [the World Trade
Center bomber] was a follower [of yours]. Do you remember him? Did you
know him?
Bin Ladin: Ramzi Yusuf became a
well-known Muslim personality after the World Trade Center bombing and
all Muslims know him. Unfortunately, I did not know him before the incident.
I remember him as a Muslim who defended Islam from American aggression.
He undertook this effort to let Americans know that their government assaults
Muslims to insure Israeli and Jewish interests. Americans will see many
youths who follow Ramzi Yusuf.
Miller: Wali Khan Amin Shah was
captured in Manila [on terrorist charges]. American authorities believed
he was working for you, funded by you, setting up training camps there,
and that part of his plan was to plan the assassination of President Clinton
during his trip to Manila.
Bin Ladin: Wali Khan is a Muslim
youth. In Afghanistan, he is nicknamed "The Lion." He is one of the best
youths, and we were good friends. We fought together in the same trench
against the Russians until God sent them away in humiliating defeat.
You mentioned that he works for
me. We do not have anyone who works for someone else. We all work for God
and await his reward.
And regarding your mention of his
attempt to assassinate President Clinton, it is not surprising. I did not
know about it, but it is not surprising. As I said, every action solicits
a similar reaction. What does Clinton expect from those whom he killed
and from those whose children and mothers he assaulted? This is not a surprising
matter.
Miller: Federal authorities in the
United States are still investigating their suspicion that you ordered
and funded the attacks on the United States military in Khobar and Riyadh[,
two military installations in Saudi Arabia].
Bin Ladin: We roused the people,
the Muslims, and carried fatwas from our ulema [religious authorities]
after the Saudi government imprisoned them to placate the American government.
The most prominent [of the ulema] are Sheikh Salman bin Fahd al-'Uda and
Safad bin 'Abd ar-Rahman al-Awali.
We carried these fatwas and roused
the people to eject this enemy from the holy land [of Saudi Arabia]; some
of the people listened, including Khalid as-Sa'id, 'Abd al-'Aziz al-Mu'aththam,
Hamud al-Hajari and Muslih as-Samarra'i.2 We pray that God grants them
martyr status. They have raised the head of the Muslim nation high and
washed away some of the dishonor we had to bear by the Saudi government's
collaboration with the American government in the land of God. We look
at these young men as great heroes and martyrs who followed the steps of
the prophet, peace upon him. We called and they answered. We pray to God
to accept them and bless their parents with patience.
Miller: You have been painted in
America as a terrorist leader. To your followers you are a hero. How do
you see yourself?
Bin Ladin: As I said before, we
do not worry about what America says. We look at ourselves and our brethren
as worshipers of God who created us to worship him and follow his books
and prophets. I am one of God's worshipers. I worship God, which includes
carrying out the jihad to raise God's word and evict the Americans from
all Muslim land.
DESIRE TO DESTROY THE U.S.
Miller: No one expected the mujahidin
[warriors engaged in jihad] to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan; that
caused a surprise to everyone. What do you see as the future for the American
involvement in the Middle East and taking on groups like yours?
Bin Ladin: NATO [the North Atlantic
Treaty Organization], which America created, spent $455 billion improving
weaponry to protect Europe and America from Russians, and they did not
fire a single shot. God stood with the Muslims, the Afghan mujahidin, and
those who fought with them from other Muslim countries. We fought against
the Russians and the Soviet Union until-not to say we defeated them, but
God defeated them-they became non-existent. There is a lesson to learn
from this for he who wishes to learn it.
The Soviet Union entered [Afghanistan]
in the last week of 1979, in December, and with God's help their flag was
folded December 25, a few years later [1988], and thrown in the trash,
and there was nothing left to call the Soviet Union.
We are sure of God's victory and
our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the prophet,
peace be upon him: "Judgment day shall not come until the Muslims fight
the Jews, whereas the Jews will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree
and the stone will speak and say, 'Muslim, behind me is a Jew; come and
kill him,' except for the al-Ghargad tree, which is a Jewish plant."
Our battle with the Americans is
larger than our battle with the Russians. The Americans made a very stupid
mistake that no one has made before. They attacked the Muslim symbol, the
qibla, of 200 million people.3 The reaction was very encouraging by the
Muslim scholars and the youth. We predict a black day for America and the
end of the United States as the United States, and it will become separate
states and will retreat from our land and collect the bodies of its sons
back to America, God willing.
THE SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY
Miller: What do you see as the future
of the Saudi royal family and their involvement with America and United
States military?
Bin Ladin: History has an answer
to your question. Any government that sells its peoples' interests and
betrays its people and takes actions that removes it from the Muslim nation
will not succeed.
We predict that the Riyadh leader
and those with him that stood with the Jews and Christians and forfeited
al-Haramayn, the holy shrines [of Mecca and Medina], to Jews and Christians
with American or other identities will disintegrate. They have abandoned
the Muslim nation.
We predict that as with the Iran
royal family, the shah, they will disperse and disappear. After God gave
them property on the most sacred land and gave them unheard-of wealth from
oil, still they sinned and did not value God's gift. We predict their destruction
and dispersal after they have devastated the entire Muslim nation, especially
the Muslim people of Iraq.
The prophet said, "A woman entered
hell because of a cat. She did not feed it and blocked it from finding
food on its own." She is going to hell for blocking a cat; what say those
who agreed to the hundreds of thousands of troops who blockaded the millions
of Muslims in Iraq?
Miller: Do you think the Saudi government
wants the American military to stay?
Bin Ladin: This does not make a
difference because of American opposition, aggression, and greed. The Americans
came with [Saudi] government permission but now it makes no difference
if the government wants them to stay or leave. You will leave only when
the [Muslim] youth send you [home] in wooden boxes in which lie the bodies
of American troops and civilians. The Muslim masses are moving towards
liberating the Muslim world. God willing, we will win.
NEXT TARGETS
Miller: Describe the situation when
your men took on the Americans in Somalia. Were you there?
Bin Ladin: After God honored us
with victory in Afghanistan, and justice prevailed against those who slaughtered
millions of Muslims in the Muslim republics, Muslim minds no longer believed
in the myth of superpowers. The youth no longer saw America as a superpower.
After leaving Afghanistan they headed
for Somalia and prepared for a long battle, thinking that the Americans
were like the Russians. They were surprised when the Americans entered
with 300,000 troops, and collected other troops from around the world-5,000
from Pakistan, 5,000 from India, 5,000 from Bangladesh, 5,000 from Egypt,
Senegal, and others like Saudi Arabia. The youth were surprised at the
low morale of the American soldiers and realized more than before that
the America soldiers are paper tigers. After a few blows, the Americans
ran away in defeat.
After a few blows, they forgot about
being the world leader and the leader of the new world order. They left,
dragging their corpses and their shameful defeat, and stopped using such
titles. They learned in America that this name [i.e., God] is larger than
them.
When this great defeat took place
I was in Sudan, and it pleased me very much, just as it pleases all Muslims.
God willing, the next victory will be in Hijaz and Najd, [provinces of]
Saudi Arabia, and it will cause Americans to forget the horrors of Vietnam
and Beirut.
Miller: Many Americans believe that
fighting army-to-army, like what happened in Afghanistan, is heroic for
either army, but setting off bombs killing civilians and innocents like
the World Trade Center is terrorism.
Bin Ladin: They talk one way but
act another. After our victory in Afghanistan over the Russians, the world
media, lead by the American media, started a campaign against us that is
still going on today (despite the fact that the Russians left in l989,
almost ten years ago). They accuse us of being terrorists even though the
mujahidin did not strike against the real terrorists, the Americans. That
is one side.
On the other side, American policy
does not differentiate between civilians, soldiers, and children, or between
humans and animals. I mentioned Nagasaki and Hiroshima, where they tried
to eliminate a whole people. As for Muslim victims, Westerners and Christians
testified to the death of hundreds of thousands of our children in Iraq.
And there is Qana, Sabra and Shattila, Deir Yasin, and Bosnia. The Crusaders
[i.e., Christians] continue their slaughter of our mothers, sisters, and
children, and America every time supports them and prevents weapons from
reaching the Muslims. You do not have a religion that prevents you from
carrying out these actions.
You do not have the right to object
to like treatment. Every action solicits a reaction. It is a punishment
that fits the crime. At the same time, our primary targets are military
ones, plus those in the military's employment. Our religion forbids us
to kill innocents-children and women who are not combatants. But women
soldiers in the battle trenches receive the same treatment as combatant
men.
GLOBAL TERROR, GLOBAL ENEMIES
Miller: Is there a high council
of the leaders of different groups like yours that decides on ways and
means to attack Americans?
Bin Ladin: After the Americans entered
the holy land [i.e., Saudi Arabia in 1990], many emotions were roused in
the Muslim world, more than we have seen before. A great meeting took place
a few days ago in Pakistan, attended by a 150 scholars. Its goal was to
work toward liberating the holy land and to coordinate efforts between
Muslim masses. With God's blessings, scholars from Afghanistan, India,
and other Muslim nations passed around individual fatwas, though no joint
fatwas were passed; cooperation is expanding among supporters of this religion.
>From this effort, the International
Islamic Front for the Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders was formed, which
we are a member of along with other groups. It has a Higher Council to
coordinate rousing the Muslim nation to carry out jihad against Jews and
Crusaders.
Miller: The American people by in
large do not know the name Usama bin Ladin, but they soon will. Do you
have a message to the American people?
Bin Ladin: I say that the American
people gave power to a traitorous leadership. This became especially clear
in Clinton's government. The American government is an agent that represents
Israel inside America. Look at sensitive departments like the Defense Department
or the State Department, or sensitive security departments like the CIA
[Central Intelligence Agency] and others; you find that Jews have the first
word in the American government. That is how they use America to carry
out their plans in the world, especially in the Muslim world.
The presence of Americans in the
holy land [again, Saudi Arabia] supports the Jews and protects their backs.
At a time when millions of Americans live on the street or below the poverty
line, the American government is helping Israel occupy our land and build
settlements in the holy land. The American government is throwing away
the lives of Americans in Saudi Arabia for the interests of the Jews.
The Jews are a people who God cited
in his holy book, the Qur'an, as having attacked prophets with lies. They
attacked Mary and accused her of a great sin. They are a people who killed
God's prophets. Would they not kill, rape, and steal from humans? They
believe all humans were created for their use; Americans they found to
be the best suited to do their will. The American government is driving
America to destruction.
So, we tell the Americans as a people,
and the mothers of soldiers and all American mothers, if they value their
lives and those of their children, they should find a national government
that will look after their interests, not those of the Jews. Continuation
of the present tyranny will only bring the fighting to America, like Ramzi
Yusuf and the others did.
This is my message to the American
people: look for a serious government that watches out for its interests
and does not attack the lands or the honor of others.
HOLDING THE UNITED STATES RESPONSIBLE
Miller: Mr. bin Ladin, these are
most of the questions we came with. Is there anything else that I did not
ask that you would like to add?
Bin Ladin: The issue of liberating
holy lands is not my personal desire, for I am just a servant of God and
one of God's soldiers in the Muslim nation. The movement is driving forward,
fast and light. I am sure of our victory, with God's help, against America
and the Jews. Every day the Americans delay their departure from the Muslim
countries, they will receive a new corpse.
The American government has no choice
but to pull its sons from the holy land [Saudi Arabia] especially and from
the Muslim lands in general. It also has to refrain in any way from supporting
the Israeli government that occupies our land.
We place complete responsibility
on the American government for its attacks against Muslims and its support
of regimes in our countries that go against the best interest of the people.
We also hold it responsible for its attack on that symbol of Islam, Sheikh
Omar Abdel Rahman,4 one of the most prominent Islamic scholars whom God
gave the courage to speak the truth. We hear that he is in bad health.
He is a man beyond sixty years of age, he is blind, and America treats
him badly. The imprisonment of Sheikh Omar is an attack on the Muslim religion
and on Muslim countries. We hold the United States completely responsible
for his imprisonment and the imprisonment of other Muslims in America.
My advice to American journalists
is: do not ask why we did what we did, but ask what their government had
done that forced us to defend ourselves.
1 But bin Ladin's replies were not
translated for Miller, who therefore could not ask follow-up questions.
2 All of whom the Saudi government
accused of the Riyadh bombing, tried, and executed.
3 Meaning Mecca; the qibla is the
direction in which Muslims turn to pray.
4 In jail for life in Missouri
for his role in the attempted bombing of New York landmarks.