Counter Terror (Interview with Limor Livnat)

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Publication: The Times of India
Date: September 13, 2003
URL: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com:80/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=179405

She wears her right-wing credentials on her sleeve and believes that there is no room for compromise with fundamentalism. Israel's culture and education minister Limor Livnat, recently in Delhi as part of prime minister Ariel Sharon's entourage, spoke to Lalita Panicker about how India and Israel can cooperate to deal with the common terrorist challenge facing the two countries:
 
Q.: The visit has been cut short due to the bomb blasts in Israel. Are you satisfied with your talks so far?
A.: I am shocked at the bombings. The head of the emergency centre at Jerusalem's most prominent hospital - the man who dealt with victims of terror attacks - was killed. Our meetings with your finance minister, defence minister and, of course, the prime minister went off very well. I would say there has been a breakthrough in ties.
 
Q.: A few years ago, such a warm reception for a Israeli prime minister would have been unthinkable. What has changed? Is it the fall-out of 9/11?
A.: India is a big democracy, we are a big democracy in a small nation. We are both surrounded by undemocratic regimes. We are outposts of democracy facing terrorism. Yes, after 9/11, there is greater understanding that we in the demo- cratic world are facing growing terror threats. We have similar problems.
 
Q.: So the key to India- Israel ties hinges on defence?
A.: Yes, defence is the key, but also democratic values.
 
Q.: Israel has always favoured a hardline on terrorism. Doesn't such a policy lead to an escalating cycle of violence?
A.: I don't agree with that. The Palestinians and Arabs don't accept our right to exist. They want to destroy Israel and kill Jews. We have to fight to protect ourselves. The Palestinians are educated to kill and get killed. We cannot survive if we don't hit back, we have no alternative. The Palestinians have access to so many Arab states all around, we have only this tiny piece of land. It is our only homeland.
 
Q.: Are you saying the Palestinians have no right to their land, that they should go to surrounding Arab countries?
A.: I am not saying they should go elsewhere. We offered them tangible assets in the Oslo accord, but they only gave us promises. We made concessions and got terror in return.
 
Q.: Is it feasible to go on expecting the Palestinian Authority (PA) to rein in Islamic Jihad and Hamas, over whom it has no control?
A.: The PA has supported and praised terror attacks on us. If it cannot take on the al-Aqsa brigade and Islamic Jihad, why do they sign agreements saying they can do so. I belong to the right wing in politics, I was opposed to the roadmap and abstained from voting. But we gave them a chance. Now the PA cannot say, sorry the attacks are done by Hamas.
 
Q.: What do you see as the way forward?
A.: They have to recognise our right to exist. They have to stop the terror attacks. The killing of Israelis is not acceptable to us. They have to stop teaching their children hatred.
 
Q.: You speak of not teaching children hatred. But did you not advocate rewriting textbooks to correct so-called distortions in Jewish history?
A.: Yes, I brought the Zionist heritage into the education system and 80 per cent of Israelis supported it. But this is not directed against Arabs or Palestinians.
 
Q.: Apart from counter-terrorism, is there anything else that can hold Indo-Israeli ties together?
A.: We are both high-tech countries and ancient civilisations. We want to upgrade cultural ties. You know, my first contact with India was through the poems of Rabindranath Tagore.
 
Q.: What is the significance of Abu Mazen's exit and his replacement by Abu Ala as Palestinian prime minister?
A.: As long as Yasser Arafat, an arch terrorist, is there, there can be no way forward. As long as he is in the picture, it makes no difference who is prime minister. We are ready to cooperate but he has to go. We must get rid of him.
 
Q.: Has your policy of targeted assassinations been of any benefit to you?
A.: If we don't get rid of these terrorist leaders, even more Israelis will be killed. You see, we don't go and attack Palestinian civilians, but unfortunately they get hurt in our fight against terrorists.
 
Q.: Your policy of bulldozing homes has attracted a lot of flak. How effective has it been?
A.: It has to be done if we have to get rid of terrorists. We cannot live with suicide bombers who terrorise our children.
 
Q.: But you have also killed many Palestinian children.
A.: We have never deliberately killed Palestinian children.
 
Q.: Do you think the American involvement in Iraq has made the region a more dangerous place?
A.: The American involvement is aimed at ending terrorism. The Islamists want to attack the US, Israel and India. The US is not aggressive. We attack terrorists too, not out of aggression, but to protect ourselves. The US has to protect the world.
 
Q.: And do you think you will succeed with this policy?
A.: We will, otherwise radicals will take over the world. We cannot let this happen. The free world will go through difficult times but in the end we will win.
 

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