Author:
Publication: India Today
Date: January 12, 2004
The sun was playing hide and seek
when Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee walked onto the manicured lawns
of 7 Race Course Road. But his mood was sunny, expansive, confident and
ready for anything. Tailed by PMO officials Ajay Bisaria and Ashok Tandon,
the just-turned-79- year-old spoke for 90 minutes to Editor-in-Chief Aroon
Purie and Editor Prabhu Chawla. From the forthcoming elections to why Farooq
Abdullah left the NDA, from managing regional parties to why he sometimes
has to compromise, the normally reticent Vajpayee spoke disarmingly and
expansively of his five years in power. And what else he want to do now.
Excerpts from an exclusive conversation over a cup of tea.
Q. What has been the one major achievement
of your coalition Government?
A. A stable coalition government
is itself an achievement. Despite disparate parties, we have been able
to strengthen national unity, speed up development and heighten the spirit
of working together.
Q. By making a 22-party government
work successfully, you have created a political record. What has been your
particular contribution to it?
A. Let others assess that. A lot
of people are giving us credit but it's also due to the coalition parties.
Q. What major lessons did you learn
from the collapse of your 13-month government in 1999?
A. That failure taught us a lesson.
After that we laid stress on our common manifesto. Everyone was bound by
it and that had an impact.
Q. But did you not find it difficult
to work with so many different parties?
A. Not really. Whether you are
in the government or the opposition, you must work by consensus.
Q. What has been your guiding principle
for the alliance?
A. All the parties were determined
that we should work together, that we had to trust each other.
Q. Did you have to compromise on
principles?
A. No compromise. It is not only
a question of principles, it is also a matter of working together. We did
not give the coalition partners any unnecessary concessions. We gave them
sufficient food grains. What is wrong in that? We had surplus food stocks.
Q. So you did not have to pay a
price to keep everyone together.
A. Absolutely not. But we took
special care of the sentiments of the leaders of supporting parties.
Q. Was there ever a point when you
felt the coalition was in danger? Or was it smooth sailing?
A. Never. I won't say it was smooth
sailing. There were problems. Some regional parties had their specific
concerns. We had to balance national and regional interests.
Q. You must have been under immense
pressure.
A. Obviously. It was a numbers
game-in the beginning, not later.
Q. Even from the Sangh Parivar...
A. There is no pressure from the
Sangh Parivar. We have excellent relations with them.
Q. It must have been difficult for
you.
A. It is difficult to run a small
family, this one is big.
Q. You said trust is one principle
of a coalition government. Is there any other?
A. Coalition partners should feel
that they are being heard, that we are sensitive to their genuine interests.
We listen to their problems and don't let issues get aggravated, otherwise
the coalition will be in trouble.
Q. Yet the National Conference deserted
you.
A. The National Conference leaders
talked of autonomy. We asked them, 'What more do you expect, let us know
precisely.' They did not have an answer. They had to leave the NDA once
Mufti Mohammed Sayeed became the chief minister.
Q. Farooq Abdullah could have stayed
in the NDA.
A. No, not after the Mufti became
chief minister. When Mufti was able to form the Government, we decided
to work with him in the interest of the political stability in Jammu and
Kashmir and the nation.
Q. But why did the National Conference
leave your Government? Why did Omar Abdullah resign?
A. Because we decided to back Mufti.
Farooq did not want Mufti to come to power. He wanted a National Conference-led
government.
Q. Or is it because Abdullah was
not made the vice-president?
A. Maybe.
Q. What about the DMK? What happened
to your good relations with them?
A. We still have good relations
with them.
Q. Everyone has good relations with
you, not necessarily with your party.
A. Our party has to promote its
own interests.
Q. You too want to do that ...
A. Yes. And we don't mind minor
adjustments.
Q. So has compromise become your
new mantra?
A. It is not compromise. Whenever
we need to take a stand, we do. We have made many parties come around to
our point of view. Take West Bengal. Our relations with the communists
are not good. But our Government was right on the Bangladeshi issue and
they agreed that infiltration was wrong, that it had to be stopped. We
have changed some parties and some parties have changed us.
Q. How much have you changed?
A. A bit.
Q. Will the same coalition continue
into the next general elections?
A. Not necessarily. Every party
will decide its own direction. But the NDA will continue although its nature
may change slightly. Some parties have left us but we will add some new
allies.
Q. What about the BSP?
A. We wanted to have good relations
with the BSP. But Mayawati resigned abruptly. The party seemed to have
fallen victim to false propaganda from some quarters that her government
would be toppled.
Q. Uttar Pradesh and Bihar appear
to be your problem areas for the next Lok Sabha elections. Why?
A. If the leaders of the JP Movement
come together Bihar won't be a problem. Uttar Pradesh is the real challenge.
We have already lost some ground there.
Q. Unless you strengthen your base
in Uttar Pradesh, how will your party get 180 seats?
A. Not 180. We have to get much
more than that.
Q. Where will they come from? You
have just 29 seats in Madhya Pradesh, 16 in Rajasthan.
A. We will increase our strength
in Rajasthan.
Q. You may lose some seats. For
instance, in Orissa...
A. No way, the Congress is in a
bad shape there.
Q. This time the anti-incumbency
factor worked in your favour in the assembly elections. But being an incumbent
you will face the same problem in the next election.
A. The anti-incumbency factor may
not work against us. People know that we have not yet got sufficient time
to accomplish our mission. They know our record is good. They are in a
mood to give us another five years.
Q. Some people must be disappointed
with your Government.
A. But many more support us.
Q. You said your Government's record
is very good. The coalition is an achievement. What else?
A. The nation's economy. It was
in a bad shape. Making economic reforms work for the benefit of the people
is one of our achievements. People were worried about disinvestment but
now they understand its virtues.
Q. Should you disinvest profit-making
industries?
A. The criterion should be how
essential this is.
Q. Are you a swadeshi?
A. Yes, I am. But now the difference
between swadeshi and videshi has narrowed down considerably.
Q. How do you view the ministerial
differences on disinvestment?
A. That is not related to ideology.
Ministers have their own perspectives.
Q. Are you happy with the extent
of disinvestment? Do you believe individualism has slowed its pace?
A. Individuals have differences.
We knew this would be a slow process. It cannot be faster than this. This
is democracy. It has its own pace.
Q. How did you build the political
consensus on economic reforms?
A. Right from the beginning, the
NDA Government gave top priority to that. We are not the initiators of
reforms. We are carrying forward a process that was started by the Narasimha
Rao government and continued by the two United Front governments. But we
do legitimately take the credit for having broadened, deepened and accelerated
the reforms process.
Q. Are you interested in economic
affairs or do you decide on broad principles?
A. One cannot do without taking
an interest in economic affairs. But I don't look at specifics. I go by
broad outlines. But we do the monitoring.
Q. Will you take some hard political
decisions to jump-start the reforms process?
A. Your question presupposes that
the reform process has stalled and therefore needs to be jump-started.
That is not true. Reforms are progressing steadily.
Q. What are the major reforms you
regret not having taken in the past five years?
A. I do not have any regrets on
economic reforms because they are on course. But we should have started
electoral reforms much earlier. We have begun that process now and we will
take bold steps in the future.
Q. There is a perception that the
benefits of economic reforms have not trickled down.
A. I don't agree with that. Since
Independence the sharpest decadal decline in the percentage of people living
below the poverty line has been in the 1990s. Now a vegetable vendor can
afford a mobile phone. Is this not an example of economic reforms benefiting
the masses?
Q. Is your party prepared for the
next elections?
A. We will have to gear up for
it.
Q. What do you have to do?
A. We have to work together. We
also have to expand our support base among those sections of society which
have so far stayed away from us.
Q. There has been a rather contradictory
confluence of elderly leaders and young blood in the BJP. How do you manage
the differences?
A. There is no contradiction between
the elders and the younger leaders in our party. The BJP is like an evergreen
tree whose roots may be old but which renews itself with fresh growth on
its spreading branches.
Q. Are elections likely before September
2004?
A. Let us see what happens. It
will be decided after taking our coalition partners into confidence. We
will also discuss it at our party's National Executive meeting on January
11.
Q. You always wanted a solution
to the Kashmir problem. Do you think it is possible in your lifetime?
A. I remain optimistic about it.
But there has to be a fundamental change in Pakistan's perspectives. During
my Lahore visit, I had clearly conveyed our desire for peace and friendship.
Apparently Pakistan did not believe us. Until it changes its perception
about Jammu and Kashmir-that because it is a Muslim-majority state, it
should be a part of Pakistan-no meaningful discussions can take place on
this matter.
Q. So will problems between India
and Pakistan remain so long as Kashmir is an issue?
A. It does not have to be so. We
have important economic and cultural issues on our agenda. This does not
mean that we are running away from the Jammu and Kashmir problem or that
we are not willing to discuss it.
Q. Will either Pakistan or India
accept the Line of Control as the international border?
A. No. Such matters have not yet
reached the discussion table.
Q. If it is left to you, what will
your solution be?
A. Why leave it to me? This is
a subject of grave national importance and it has to be resolved with the
collective wisdom of the people.
Q. The US also has a role. Is it
a constructive one?
A. Yes, they have been making genuine
efforts to promote peace in the subcontinent-as friend, not mediator.
Q. So is America a good friend now?
A. As democracies, India and the
US are natural allies.
Q. What is your opinion of Pakistan
President Pervez Musharraf? Do you feel he can be trusted?
A. It is not a question of trust.
We have issues of bilateral importance to discuss with the political leadership
of Pakistan, if conditions permit it.
Q. Some members of the Sangh Parivar
believe your peace initiative is a sign of weakness.
A. They have in fact welcomed the
peace plan.
Q. Will any bilateral meeting take
place on the sidelines of the SAARC Summit in Islamabad?
A. A number of bilateral meetings
have been scheduled with SAARC leaders. Naturally, I will also interact
with our Pakistani hosts.
Q. Does Pakistan see us as an enemy?
A. I think the perception of India
among the Pakistanis is changing. Our delegations which have returned from
Pakistan and the Pakistani groups that have come here have consistently
talked about the desire to have peace and friendship.
Q. Cross-border terrorism has not
stopped.
A. We have a ceasefire along the
international border, the loc and the ground position at Siachen. Let us
see if these will lead to further positive developments.
Q. Is there a nuclear option? Is
there a possibility of Atalji pressing the nuclear button?
A. The only button I will press
is of an electronic voting machine. It is madness even to contemplate nuclear
war. Our nuclear weapons are meant to be a deterrent.
Q. How do you view India's foreign
policy?
A. I think our growing network
of international relations shows the foreign policy is vibrant and forward-looking.
Our robust economy is changing the way the world is looking at us.
Q. Unlike today, when India is a
darling of the world, we were the target of rebuke after Pokhran II. In
retrospect, was the decision for nuclear tests a correct one?
A. It was definitely the right
decision. Most countries today recognise this, though they may not publicly
admit it. The nuclear tests strengthened our national security in a strategic
sense.
Q. India can make common cause with
China and Russia against the US.
A. We are not seeking to make common
cause against the US. Whatever dialogue we three have relate to cooperation
for the benefit of our nations. It was not against the US.
Q. Will you lead the party in the
next general elections?
A. Nothing is decided. The party
will decide.
Q. There were quite a few scandals
during your term. Petrol pump, UTI, Tehelka and now Judev. Hasn't the party's
image suffered?
A. We ordered inquiries into all
allegations.
Q. Earlier Bangaru Laxman was caught
on camera taking money. He was party president.
A. The entire system has to be
changed. Elections are increasingly becoming costlier. Where does the money
come from? Who gives it? These things influence politics. It is a big problem
in our democracy.
Q. Corruption is a big issue during
elections. At one point, your party had decided to accept donations only
by cheque.
A. We had. But it did not work.
No party can do this unilaterally. Everyone has to think about it.
Q. The chief election commissioner
has said that politicians do not want democracy in the country.
A. He should not have said it.
Q. Is India suffering from corrupt
politicians or corrupt bureaucrats?
A. From both.
Q. If you win the elections what
will be your priorities? Will you give the nation a new direction?
A. We have to make India a developed
nation.
Q. What do you feel about Ayodhya,
the mandir?
A. A Ram temple in Ayodhya is a
universal demand. Sentiments of the people are attached to it. I hope a
solution can be found with the goodwill of all concerned.
Q. If the BJP comes to power on
its own, will it bring up contentious issues like Article 370, uniform
civil code and Ayodhya?
A. Some of these have been part
of the BJP manifesto.
Q. There are allegations that the
Hindu agenda is being implemented in education.
A. What is the Hindu agenda?
Q. What Murli Manohar Joshi is proclaiming.
The people he is appointing. Education is being saffronised.
A. What is the meaning of saffronisation?
Q. Changes in the ICHR, the common
entrance exam for Aligarh Muslim University...
A. What is its connection to either
saffronisation or Muslims?
Q. Do you agree that the two major
communities in India are fundamentalist?
A. No, I don't agree.
Q. Will India sit on the UN Security
Council during your rule?
A. The number of our well-wishers
in the UN is increasing.
Q. Are you fit and ready for the
elections?
A. I am fit and ready.
Q. Do you believe in destiny, God,
jyotish?
A. I do believe in destiny and
in God.
Q. You are a poet. Have you penned
romantic poems? What is the latest that you have written? Which is the
last book you read?
A. I am a poet by instinct and
inclination. I joined politics not by choice but by force of circumstances.
I have written romantic poems too but that was many years ago. I rarely
get time for poetry now but I do read. The last book I read was Hillary
Clinton's Living History.
Q. How does it help to have L.K.
Advani as a deputy?
A. Advaniji and I have been close
colleagues for nearly 50 years. As deputy prime minister, he is a source
of great strength.
Q. Do you desire a Nobel Prize?
A. Your question truly amuses me.
I have never done anything in my life with a desire for a reward or prize.